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Opinion: SMART REMARKS: Obama on drugs: He should know better

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LTnewsDawg

Gil Smart says that President Obama, reportedly a pot smoker in high school, should know better than to continue the failed, expensive and unjust war on drugs....

 

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Farmer Vincent

Wow. And thank you Gil. Even as someone who doesn't smoke pot, that makes complete sense. And I'm not talking sense that medically, marijuana is rather innocuous as compared to alcohol, but in the sense that it's a potentially profitable commodity to our economy, not only in the form of taxes, but in the form of not having to warehouse potheads in prison for crimes equivalent to having a couple of beers. It ties up the courts, it takes up bunks in jails, it adds to the caseloads of probation officers, not to mention it keeps us from harvesting the very real benefits of ecologically smart and efficient hemp crops. I think it's time to think again. Unfortunately, hell freezes over before a Republican effects any change in that regard.

Edited by Farmer Vincent

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Guest daddyG

Gil just needs to walk a few blocks south of his office and see why legalizing drugs makes absolutely no sense. It's wonderful when a couple middle class kids can say they smoked some pot and turned out okay in life. It is completely another to see what drugs are doing to our cities and poor people all across America. Get out of your comfortable little world and see the real problems out there and this entire 'make drugs legal campaign' makes no one with common sense realize there is any benefit.

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Farmer Vincent

Gil just needs to walk a few blocks south of his office and see why legalizing drugs makes absolutely no sense. It's wonderful when a couple middle class kids can say they smoked some pot and turned out okay in life. It is completely another to see what drugs are doing to our cities and poor people all across America. Get out of your comfortable little world and see the real problems out there and this entire 'make drugs legal campaign' makes no one with common sense realize there is any benefit.

 

He wasn't talking all or nothing, just marijuana. I don't know what your imagination is telling you about the appearance of some people downtown, but it's probably wrong.

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nvh

Gil just needs to walk a few blocks south of his office and see why legalizing drugs makes absolutely no sense. It's wonderful when a couple middle class kids can say they smoked some pot and turned out okay in life. It is completely another to see what drugs are doing to our cities and poor people all across America. Get out of your comfortable little world and see the real problems out there and this entire 'make drugs legal campaign' makes no one with common sense realize there is any benefit.

 

Which drug do you think does the most harm to our cities?

 

And why isn't it illegal?

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Guest daddyG
I don't know what your imagination is telling you about the appearance of some people downtown

Do you live downtown? Work downtown? Visit downtown?

 

And why isn't it illegal?

Not what you are thinking. Not by a long shot. In the old days maybe but no more. I could take you places that would make your skin crawl and think you are no longer in America.

Edited by daddyG

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Farmer Vincent

Do you live downtown? Work downtown? Visit downtown?

 

 

Not what you are thinking. Not by a long shot. In the old days maybe but no more. I could take you places that would make your skin crawl and think you are no longer in America.

 

I grew up in the 7th ward and still work there throughout the whole community. I don't have the powers to tell what kind of drugs, if any, someone is doing just by looking at them. More often than not, if it's someone on the street who's been partaking of something, that something is usually alchohol.

 

Compared to the Bronx, Lancaster is so safe you could walk through there wearing nothing but underware made of twenty dollar bills and not get hassled.

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Guest daddyG

I am not talking about stuff you see. I am talking about stuff that goes on behind closed doors in drug houses and apartments. It is not a pretty sight. The abuse of women addicted to crack cocaine and the emotions of those addicted to heroin and other hard drugs. Now the designer drugs are moving in and much harder to detect in the younger generations. People from around the county coming in to get their fix and then return to the burbs. I am not saying it is the Bronx or South Philly, but people have no idea what is happening so close to them. To me anyone who says drugs should be legal, including marijuana, just needs a 5 minute peak into the world I am talking about and it will change their mind quickly.

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Farmer Vincent

I am not talking about stuff you see. I am talking about stuff that goes on behind closed doors in drug houses and apartments. It is not a pretty sight. The abuse of women addicted to crack cocaine and the emotions of those addicted to heroin and other hard drugs. Now the designer drugs are moving in and much harder to detect in the younger generations. People from around the county coming in to get their fix and then return to the burbs. I am not saying it is the Bronx or South Philly, but people have no idea what is happening so close to them. To me anyone who says drugs should be legal, including marijuana, just needs a 5 minute peak into the world I am talking about and it will change their mind quickly.

 

Pot is a fairly innocuous drug, less problematic than alcohol. To point to a crack head or someone using bath salts and say that here's an example why pot should be illegal doesn't make that much sense. I'll spare you the pros of legalizing it because everybody's already heard it.

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Guest daddyG

It is all about common sense. Common sense tells kids that if you say it is okay to do a drug they are going to do it. So they start getting high and then they want more. The more leads to harder drugs. It is a proven theory despite what all the selfish pro-pot groups tell you. Common sense says to protect our children and our future, leave drugs illegal. New studies just out, show after years of teen drug use declining, legalizing pot in the few states that have done so, teen drug use has now reversed and is climbing again. Common sense.

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Farmer Vincent

It is all about common sense. Common sense tells kids that if you say it is okay to do a drug they are going to do it. So they start getting high and then they want more. The more leads to harder drugs. It is a proven theory despite what all the selfish pro-pot groups tell you. Common sense says to protect our children and our future, leave drugs illegal. New studies just out, show after years of teen drug use declining, legalizing pot in the few states that have done so, teen drug use has now reversed and is climbing again. Common sense.

 

That myth of pot being a gateway drug was busted probably before you were born. Common sense tells me that if you take pot out of the hands of drug dealers who maybe have access to other drugs, then you're keeping those kids away from a criminal element. This whole social experiment has been done already in the Netherlands and it's the same as with kids in Europe having a little wine with their meals at a younger age and not ending up being alcoholics. If you don't make a big deal out of the little stuff, it becomes less an exciting taboo and more of a take it or leave it sort of thing.

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Guest daddyG
That myth of pot being a gateway drug was busted probably before you were born.

Tell that to the thousands of teenagers in drug rehab programs across the country. Almost every single one of them started with ......... marijuana.

 

Please do go read about the Netherlands and the drug problems they are having with their youth.

 

Yowzaa...... either people are extremely selfish about wanting to get high themselves or they are believing false statements that legalizing pot will bring about revenue for government and lower expenses. Both are false and show how gullible people are to marketing.

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nvh

Do you live downtown? Work downtown? Visit downtown?

 

 

Not what you are thinking. Not by a long shot. In the old days maybe but no more. I could take you places that would make your skin crawl and think you are no longer in America.

 

Don't assume that you are the only one with "street cred".

 

Have you ever pulled drunks out of the after hour clubs at 4 AM? I used to drive taxi, the last resort of the helpless drunk. I've seen a bit of the despair arising from alcohol consumption.

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nvh

Tell that to the thousands of teenagers in drug rehab programs across the country. Almost every single one of them started with ......... marijuana.

 

Bull feathers. The #1 gateway drug is alcohol. It is easy to get for even 10 year olds, and it is a rare individual who smokes dope before they've experienced alcohol intoxication.

 

Please do go read about the Netherlands and the drug problems they are having with their youth.

 

If you knew much about the "drug problem" with youth in the Netherlands, you would wish that the USA had such a drug problem.

 

 

Yowzaa...... either people are extremely selfish about wanting to get high themselves or they are believing false statements that legalizing pot will bring about revenue for government and lower expenses. Both are false and show how gullible people are to marketing.

 

People use drugs (and alcohol IS A DRUG). People have always used drugs. Laws don't make people stop using drugs (see Prohibition). What we have to decide as a society is just how we want to deal with the FACT that people are going to use drugs. Do we want to be rational, and try to minimize harm, or do we just want to put people in jail for using a drug that is pretty well proven to be safer than one that they advertise on television?

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Farmer Vincent

Tell that to the thousands of teenagers in drug rehab programs across the country. Almost every single one of them started with ......... marijuana.

 

Please do go read about the Netherlands and the drug problems they are having with their youth.

 

Yowzaa...... either people are extremely selfish about wanting to get high themselves or they are believing false statements that legalizing pot will bring about revenue for government and lower expenses. Both are false and show how gullible people are to marketing.

 

Making stuff up again, eh?

See the comparison chart near the bottom.

http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/67

 

 

 

 

 

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FDR

Wow. And thank you Gil. Even as someone who doesn't smoke pot, that makes complete sense. And I'm not talking sense that medically, marijuana is rather innocuous as compared to alcohol, but in the sense that it's a potentially profitable commodity to our economy, not only in the form of taxes, but in the form of not having to warehouse potheads in prison for crimes equivalent to having a couple of beers. It ties up the courts, it takes up bunks in jails, it adds to the caseloads of probation officers, not to mention it keeps us from harvesting the very real benefits of ecologically smart and efficient hemp crops. I think it's time to think again. Unfortunately, hell freezes over before a Republican effects any change in that regard.

 

How many people do you know that have done time for possessing weed? I know more that have done time for drinking violations compared to having and smoking pot. Get caught smoking a joint and let us know how much time you do. Here's a hint...............you wont do any.

 

Keep spreading false information with Gil though. I like it when you guys make yourselves look like idiots.

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FDR

Bull feathers. The #1 gateway drug is alcohol. It is easy to get for even 10 year olds, and it is a rare individual who smokes dope before they've experienced alcohol intoxication.

 

That's rich coming from someone that ignores or maybe just doesn't understand why it is that way.

 

First of all alcohol won't be the gateway drug if you legalize these other things you want out there. If you legalize them they will be in the majority of homes in this nation just like alcohol is today which makes it pretty much the only choice for kids to sneak from the house or after mom and dad go to bed. How do you think it will play out once bags of week are laying around the house like beer is in the fridge? That statement of "rare individual who smokes dope before they........" will be out the window in a day or two if you get your way. Just what we need in this world is a bunch of 16-20 year old kids driving around high. You don't want them to have cell phones but you want them to have easy access to something that will impair them worse than phones or booze will.

 

No wonder people laugh at you Demoncrats.

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Farmer Vincent

How many people do you know that have done time for possessing weed? I know more that have done time for drinking violations compared to having and smoking pot. Get caught smoking a joint and let us know how much time you do. Here's a hint...............you wont do any.

 

Keep spreading false information with Gil though. I like it when you guys make yourselves look like idiots.

 

The website of theMarijuana Policy Project notes that: “Federal government figures indicate there are more than 41,000 Americans in state or federal prison on marijuana charges right now, not including those in county jails. That’s more than the number imprisoned on all charges combined in eight individual European Union countries.â€<br style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><br style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; ">Continue reading at NowPublic.com: Marijuana Arrests Feed Insatiable U.S. Prison System | NowPublic News Coverage http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/marijuana-arrests-feed-insatiable-u-s-prison-system#ixzz1wjx4OHtD

 

http://norml.org/news/2006/10/12/nearly-one-in-eight-us-drug-prisoners-are-behind-bars-for-pot-taxpayers-spending-over-1-billion-annually-to-incarcerate-pot-offenders

 

Well I guess I'm one of those idiots who would rather not see a portion of my tax dollars go toward keeping people incarcerated for a substance that's less of a social problem than alcohol and helps keep a system of growing and distribution in the hands of drug cartels. The war on drugs hasn't stopped anything and cost plenty. It's time to get sensible about the whole thing.

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Guest daddyG
Don't assume that you are the only one with "street cred".

Have you ever pulled drunks out of the after hour clubs at 4 AM? I used to drive taxi, the last resort of the helpless drunk. I've seen a bit of the despair arising from alcohol consumption.

Dude, you don't have half a clue what I am talking about. If dealing with drunks at 4am is all you got, then I completely understand why you think it would be okay to legalize drugs. Until you have true 'street cred' then perhaps you should allow others to deal with these situations.

 

The #1 gateway drug is alcohol

Exactly, so why would would make another one legal? Just does not computer.

 

Do we want to be rational, and try to minimize harm

Exactly my point. Be rational. Use common sense. Telling people it is legal to do drug is neither rational or a common sense move. If you want to change the drug laws and drug treatment, I have no problem with that. Thinking that legalizing drugs will make the situation better is plain stupidity. You mentioned alcohol, learn from it and see what it has done. Legalizing drugs will be no different.

 

Making stuff up again, eh?

No different then your pro-pot websites picking and choosing snippets and certain years of data to attempt to make their point valid. Go for a trip. See for yourself. Then report back to us.

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Guest daddyG
The war on drugs hasn't stopped anything

Pure BS! How do you know what is has and hasn't stopped? You can only guess, same as with making stuff legal. You assume it will make the problem go away but it won't. It will just make all the selfish people who feel they have to get high justify their actions. Legalizing pot will not make the war on drugs go away. There is still coke, crack, meth, heroin, X, opioids and hallucinogens to deal with.

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Farmer Vincent

 

No different then your pro-pot websites picking and choosing snippets and certain years of data to attempt to make their point valid. Go for a trip. See for yourself. Then report back to us.

 

I'm back. Actually, I go to the Netherlands on a regular basis. I've been in Amsterdam on Queens Day a couple of times where they close all the streets to traffic and have a huge party. I've never seen anyone smoke pot in that country at all. Zero. And yet, there are little walk up windows here and there where you can buy some if you have ID showing you're Dutch. Sure, walk by a coffee shop and you'll get a wiff of what's going on, but it's really not a problem. No troubles, mate.

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FDR

The website of theMarijuana Policy Project notes that: “Federal government figures indicate there are more than 41,000 Americans in state or federal prison on marijuana charges right now, not including those in county jails. That’s more than the number imprisoned on all charges combined in eight individual European Union countries.â€<br style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; "><br style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; ">Continue reading at NowPublic.com: Marijuana Arrests Feed Insatiable U.S. Prison System | NowPublic News Coverage http://www.nowpublic...m#ixzz1wjx4OHtD

 

http://norml.org/new...e-pot-offenders

 

Well I guess I'm one of those idiots who would rather not see a portion of my tax dollars go toward keeping people incarcerated for a substance that's less of a social problem than alcohol and helps keep a system of growing and distribution in the hands of drug cartels. The war on drugs hasn't stopped anything and cost plenty. It's time to get sensible about the whole thing.

 

Um.................I didn't see the number of that 41,000 that are in prison because they were convicted felons who broke parole or committed probation violations. They wouldn't be there if they weren't busted before. Lets also get the number of that 41,000 that were caught with massive amounts of weed for distribution. Newsflash for you.................if you legalize weed those same individuals will be in prison for distributing something else. You see if their bread and butter is taken away from them and sold in stores they will move on to bigger and better things.

 

You keep mentioning things like "substance that's less of a social problem than alcohol and helps keep a system of growing and distribution in the hands of drug cartels. ". Put it in every house and tell me that it is less of a social problem than alcohol. LMAO You guys are fucking clueless. So where exactly will you allow people to smoke this pot you want made legal? In their vehicles when they have no passengers, public parks, bars, sidewalks around town. You mention the cartels so I have to ask you how often do good upstanding citizens get killed or hurt by those cartels? They kill each other which isn't a bad thing. The cartels aren't the ones shooting up Lancaster or NYC.

 

Care to disprove any of that?

 

BTW..............I like pot and have since I was 16 or so and have no problem with those who smoke it. I do however have a problem with the idea that it could be accessible to everyone. It is perfect the way it is now that not everyone has access to it. Those smart enough to acquire it and carry out successful lives get it and never get into trouble while those dumb enough to risk it all to sell or smoke it and can't walk and chew gum at the same time are removed from society earlier in life. That's not a bad thing and in fact works quite well.

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Farmer Vincent

Um.................I didn't see the number of that 41,000 that are in prison because they were convicted felons who broke parole or committed probation violations. They wouldn't be there if they weren't busted before. Lets also get the number of that 41,000 that were caught with massive amounts of weed for distribution. Newsflash for you.................if you legalize weed those same individuals will be in prison for distributing something else. You see if their bread and butter is taken away from them and sold in stores they will move on to bigger and better things.

 

You keep mentioning things like "substance that's less of a social problem than alcohol and helps keep a system of growing and distribution in the hands of drug cartels. ". Put it in every house and tell me that it is less of a social problem than alcohol. LMAO You guys are fucking clueless. So where exactly will you allow people to smoke this pot you want made legal? In their vehicles when they have no passengers, public parks, bars, sidewalks around town. You mention the cartels so I have to ask you how often do good upstanding citizens get killed or hurt by those cartels? They kill each other which isn't a bad thing. The cartels aren't the ones shooting up Lancaster or NYC.

 

Care to disprove any of that?

 

BTW..............I like pot and have since I was 16 or so and have no problem with those who smoke it. I do however have a problem with the idea that it could be accessible to everyone. It is perfect the way it is now that not everyone has access to it. Those smart enough to acquire it and carry out successful lives get it and never get into trouble while those dumb enough to risk it all to sell or smoke it and can't walk and chew gum at the same time are removed from society earlier in life. That's not a bad thing and in fact works quite well.

 

In the Netherlands it's like an open container law. You can't do it out in public.

Having government controlled access also puts those who use it in easy and ready access to drug counselling help if they need it. And without any legal repercussions, they're more likely to take advantage. But pot isn't addictive like so many other drugs, so there's much less need for those type of services. The only downside I can think of is that it won't help the obesity epidemic if more people have the munchies.

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FDR

In the Netherlands it's like an open container law. You can't do it out in public.

Having government controlled access also puts those who use it in easy and ready access to drug counselling help if they need it. And without any legal repercussions, they're more likely to take advantage. But pot isn't addictive like so many other drugs, so there's much less need for those type of services. The only downside I can think of is that it won't help the obesity epidemic if more people have the munchies.

 

Who told you it wasn't addictive? LOL That word is a crutch you guys like to use often. You'll have "Potheads Anonymous" in no time and it won't be because pot is addictive. It will be because millions of weak individuals will have access to it and use it as another excuse for being worthless bastards.

Edited by FDR

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nvh

How many people do you know that have done time for possessing weed? I know more that have done time for drinking violations compared to having and smoking pot. Get caught smoking a joint and let us know how much time you do. Here's a hint...............you wont do any.

 

Keep spreading false information with Gil though. I like it when you guys make yourselves look like idiots.

 

How many folks over 21 do you know who have been arrested for simple possession of alcohol?

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Guest daddyG

Now for the other side of the story..... which farmer didn't 'see'....

Furthermore, drug abuse has increased in the Netherlands. From 1984 to 1996, marijuana use among 18-25 year olds in Holland increased twofold. Since legalization of marijuana, heroin addiction levels in Holland have tripled and perhaps even quadrupled by some estimates.
The head of Holland’s best-known drug abuse rehabilitation center has described what the new drug culture has created: The strong form of marijuana that most of the young people smoke, he says, produces “a chronically passive individual—someone who is lazy, who doesn’t want to take initiatives, doesn’t want to be active—the kid who’d prefer to lie in bed with a joint in the morning rather than getting up and doing something.â€
Marijuana is not the only illegal drug to find a home in the Netherlands. The club drug commonly referred to as Ecstasy (3, 4-methylenedioxy-methamphetamine or MDMA) also has strong roots in the Netherlands. The majority of the world’s Ecstasy is produced in clandestine laboratories in the Netherlands and, to a lesser extent, Belgium.
Recognizing that the government needs to take firm action to deal with the increasing levels of addiction, in April 2001, the Dutch government established the Penal Care Facility for Addicts. Like American Drug Treatment Courts, this facility is designed to detain and treat addicts (of any drug) who repeatedly commit crimes and have failed voluntary treatment facilities. Offenders may be held in this facility for up to two years, during which time they will go through a three-phase program. The first phase focuses on detoxification, while the second and third phases focus on training for social reintegration.

http://www.justice.gov/dea/demand/speakout/09so.htm

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FDR

How many folks over 21 do you know who have been arrested for simple possession of alcohol?

 

They don't call it "simple possesion".............it's called open container and the punishment is pretty much the same. Unless of course you are a repeat offender on one who has committed much more serious of crimes. Ignore those minor details as usual though.

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Farmer Vincent

Now for the other side of the story..... which farmer didn't 'see'....

 

http://www.justice.g...eakout/09so.htm

 

Ah, from the DEA, which has a dog in that race. But there you go again, lumping pot in with other drugs. Ecstasy does not contain any ingredients from marijuana in it.

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nvh

That's rich coming from someone that ignores or maybe just doesn't understand why it is that way.

 

First of all alcohol won't be the gateway drug if you legalize these other things you want out there. If you legalize them they will be in the majority of homes in this nation just like alcohol is today which makes it pretty much the only choice for kids to sneak from the house or after mom and dad go to bed. How do you think it will play out once bags of week are laying around the house like beer is in the fridge? That statement of "rare individual who smokes dope before they........" will be out the window in a day or two if you get your way. Just what we need in this world is a bunch of 16-20 year old kids driving around high. You don't want them to have cell phones but you want them to have easy access to something that will impair them worse than phones or booze will.

 

No wonder people laugh at you Demoncrats.

 

First, we are talking about legalization of marijuana, not selling Laudanum at the Turkey Hill.

 

Second, do you think that everyone is going to smoke marijuana if it were legal? And will all pot smokers be as irresponsible as consumers of alcohol are today.

 

16 to 20 year olds drive around drunk today. If banning a substance is the best way to keep them from doing something, shouldn't we ban alcohol? Why don't we? It is a much more damaging and dangerous drug then marijuana, with millions of Americans having a physical addiction.

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nvh

Dude, you don't have half a clue what I am talking about. If dealing with drunks at 4am is all you got, then I completely understand why you think it would be okay to legalize drugs. Until you have true 'street cred' then perhaps you should allow others to deal with these situations.

 

 

Oh, fer gawds sake!

 

So you used to buy OZ's of "crank" from the Pagans and shoot smack in abandoned buildings? I didn't know.

 

 

Exactly, so why would would make another one legal? Just does not computer.

 

 

Because it wouldn't make any difference, and because the harm done by the law (the creation of an underground market, just like during Prohibition, and the wasted resources of fighting that, and the wasted resources of arresting people for possession) is worse than the consequences of legalization.

 

 

Exactly my point. Be rational. Use common sense. Telling people it is legal to do drug is neither rational or a common sense move. If you want to change the drug laws and drug treatment, I have no problem with that. Thinking that legalizing drugs will make the situation better is plain stupidity. You mentioned alcohol, learn from it and see what it has done. Legalizing drugs will be no different.

 

Again, we are only talking about legalizing marijuana.

 

 

No different then your pro-pot websites picking and choosing snippets and certain years of data to attempt to make their point valid. Go for a trip. See for yourself. Then report back to us.

 

How would you gather hard data on vacation? Seeing one waste case on a street corner doesn't tell you a thing about the society as a whole. By every objective measure, the Netherlands has less of a problem with drugs (lower rates of addiction, lower rate of teen usage, higher age at first usage) than the US.

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