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LTnewsDawg

SMART REMARKS: Resisting the surveillance state

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LTnewsDawg

Quite a bit of response last week from conservatives "congratulating" me for finally getting one right.Bash Obama, and the brickbats turn to roses.Well, whatever. As noted last week, both conservatives and liberals, and maybe especially liberals, have reason to object to our burgeoning surveillance ...

 

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52skidoo

“This is the same surveillance that was happening under Bush, but under Obama it’s somehow a huge outrage on the right.

 

 

Republicans didn’t care about Big Brother until we elected a big brotha.â€

 

 

–Bill Maher

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ToldYouSo

This is the same surveillance that was happening under Bush,

 

Reading is fundamental.

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ToldYouSo

Reading is fundamental.

 

international telephone calls and international e-mail messages of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people inside the United States without warrants

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Pastor of Muppets

Reading is fundamental.

are you also the former DaddyGullible?

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ToldYouSo

Duh!

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Pastor of Muppets

Duh!

so you have no name history, you lost the annoying hehehehehehehehe of toobad, and the equally annoying bs flag of daddygullible. At least you have seemed to matured slightly.

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ToldYouSo

Are you old? Losing memory?

 

That was news months ago.

 

Funny, I think you said the same thing about name history then.

 

New users don't have name history and I don't think current users are allowed to change their name.

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Pastor of Muppets

Are you old? Losing memory?

 

That was news months ago.

 

Funny, I think you said the same thing about name history then.

 

New users don't have name history and I don't think current users are allowed to change their name.

I asked if you are either/or, I didn't know you were both. How do you get away with not having a name history? Oh, that's right the mods cut breaks for their brethren.

 

Ya still can't shake the very tired "reading is fundamental" line.

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Thelsa Doom

I asked if you are either/or, I didn't know you were both. How do you get away with not having a name history? Oh, that's right the mods cut breaks for their brethren. Ya still can't shake the very tired "reading is fundamental" line.

You wouldn't think so if gave it a shot...

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Pastor of Muppets

You wouldn't think so if gave it a shot...

It amazes me you allegedly have two degrees.

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Thelsa Doom

It amazes me you allegedly have two degrees.

What's amazing about that.....I post to the intellect of the audience.

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Pastor of Muppets

What's amazing about that.....I post to the intellect of the audience.

LOL, at least you have a sense of humor (sometimes).

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52skidoo

Repeating the lie that Bush did the SAME thing is repeated enough times it will draw a few more LIV's to the kool-aid crowd.

 

 

too bad for conservatives...

 

 

it was faily well documented...

 

 

Bush Administration's Warrantless Wiretapping Program - Wash. Post 2/11/08

 

 

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2008-02-11/news/36928278_1_nsa-program-surveillance-program-temporary-surveillance-law

 

 

 

Bush Lets U-S Spy On Callers Without Courts - NY Times 12/16/05
 
 

 

And...the same thing that was a huge outrage under Bush is now OK under Obama.

 

 

bush began the program without judges or warrants...

 

obama uses both..

Edited by 52skidoo

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ToldYouSo

Guess it needs to be repeated:

 

Repeating the lie that Bush did the SAME thing is repeated enough times it will draw a few more LIV's to the kool-aid crowd.

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culturalinfidel

Guess it needs to be repeated:

 

Repeating the lie that Bush did the SAME thing is repeated enough times it will draw a few more LIV's to the kool-aid crowd.

 

Right, he didn't do the same thing.  What he did was even worse, bypassing the FISA court, and not using a court order for his snooping.

 

Later...CI

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simpleton

Agreed.  And it's become a conundrum.  Vote for anything but the two major parties and you've either wasted your vote or helped cause the worse of two evils to post gains.  It's become deciding which party is going to cause less damage at this point.  And it certainly didn't help that bipartisanship among those who are in office has delayed progress. 

 

I often hear expression of wonder that we don't rise up in rebellion like other countries are presently doing.  Well, it's because we're not being affected on a personal level.  We're not being displaced or suffer from lack of social services or even overtly discriminated against as class.  Well, we are, but we've been indoctrinated into believing that it's deserved.  How dare us even think of being unionized and demand fairness.  Away with it.  If not, then more jobs go overseas, right?  We've been reduced to bleating sheep so it's too much work to find a voice and rise up because for many that bleating comes from populist movements that had their origins in corporate think tanks. 

 

Instead of following ideologies, we should be following common sense and get an idea of the consequences of actions and not be distracted by polarizing issues like abortion or global warming. 

You should take your own advice.

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ToldYouSo

Right, he didn't do the same thing.  What he did was even worse, bypassing the FISA court, and not using a court order for his snooping.

 

Correct. What else is different?

 

Think carefully, your bias is showing.

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ToldYouSo

Snagging a few domestic calls in 'some' cases is far different then tracking EVERY call and email in the United States.

 

I am not saying that Bush was right or Obama is wrong.

 

To say the 2 are exactly the same on this issue is false information and should be noted as such.

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Thelsa Doom

Just because elections aren't a weekly occurrence doesn't mean I don't follow that line.  I vote for those who I think will take us in the right direction.  And like everybody else, we don't know how things will actually turn out.  As it is, we will never know if not attacking targets in Pakistan with drones or not getting bin Laden would have meant a different world for us, for example.  And as I've stated a number of times, I wish the Republicans could field moderate candidates.  And one's that aren't beholding to corporate interests or fundamentalists. 

 

I participated in the Occupy movement, but I could tell it was only going to be the first shot across the bow.  We'll have to wait and see if there's any return to banking and investing oversight, but it doesn't look good right now. 

 

 

In a vote that largely went uncovered, House Republicans, with help from some Wall Street-friendly Democrats, voted to repeal

 

the Dodd-Frank Act's check on excessive executive pay. You won’t believe their rationale.

 

http://thecontributor.com/business/congress-only-ceos-could-love

 

Were you really one of the filthy few that fouled downtown?

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culturalinfidel

Snagging a few domestic calls in 'some' cases is far different then tracking EVERY call and email in the United States.

 

I am not saying that Bush was right or Obama is wrong.

 

To say the 2 are exactly the same on this issue is false information and should be noted as such.

 

I'm not saying they are exactly the same.  I'm saying that what Bush did, without warrants, is worse.  At least the Obama administration is following the law and obtaining the proper court orders to conduct its surveillance activities. 

 

Later...CI

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ToldYouSo

I think they both are equally bad and against the basic beliefs of the founding of our country.

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culturalinfidel

I think they both are equally bad and against the basic beliefs of the founding of our country.

 

Perhaps.  I wonder why there is not a big push from congress to amend or do away with the Patriot Act.

 

Later...CI

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