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nvh

Marijuana's anxiety relief effects: Receptors found in emotional hub of brain

 

An international group led by Vanderbilt University researchers has found cannabinoid receptors, through which marijuana exerts its effects, in a key emotional hub in the brain involved in regulating anxiety and the flight-or-fight response.

 
This is the first time cannabinoid receptors have been identified in the central nucleus of the amygdala in a mouse model, they report in the current issue of the journal Neuron.

 

The discovery may help explain why marijuana users say they take the drug mainly to reduce anxiety, said Sachin Patel, M.D., Ph.D., the paper's senior author and professor of Psychiatry and of Molecular Physiology and Biophysics.....

 

Lovely, but:

 

Previous studies at Vanderbilt and elsewhere, Patel said, have suggested the following:

  • The natural endocannabinoid system regulates anxiety and the response to stress by dampening excitatory signals that involve the neurotransmitter glutamate.
  • Chronic stress or acute, severe emotional trauma can cause a reduction in both the production of endocannabinoids and the responsiveness of the receptors. Without their "buffering" effect, anxiety goes up.
  • While marijuana's "exogenous" cannabinoids also can reduce anxiety, chronic use of the drug down-regulates the receptors, paradoxically increasing anxiety. This can trigger "a vicious cycle" of increasing marijuana use that in some cases leads to addiction.

You have to pay the piper.

Edited by nvh

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finchfeeder

Marijuana's anxiety relief effects: Receptors found in emotional hub of brain......

 

Lovely, but......

  • While marijuana's "exogenous" cannabinoids also can reduce anxiety, chronic use of the drug down-regulates the receptors, paradoxically increasing anxiety. This can trigger "a vicious cycle" of increasing marijuana use that in some cases leads to addiction.

You have to pay the piper.

 

Well, does the term "chronic use" raise a red flag for you? It does, me.

 

It's no paradox that chronic-use down-regulation increases anxiety. It's called tolerance: chronic use >> tolerance >> increased need >> increased anxiety, if that need isn't met. It's human and it's not rocket science.

 

Also, researchers' definition of "chronic use." vary quite significantly. The only commonality is outrageous volumes. Please note the study I mentioned to Muffimak several posts ago--the study were some participants smoked 30 joints/day. That's outrageous...and, quite often, not dispensed (or not reasonably accessible) to the general public.

 

Though, regarding this topic, I'm preaching to the choir.  

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nvh

So you're denying that chronic use leads to addiction?

 

And what is marijuana "addiction" like? I'm addicted to coffee.

 

Give 30 joints a day to one person, and 100 mg of Morphine sulfate to another. After 30 days, which one would offer you their virgin daughter for another dose?

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nvh

I've posted plenty of links, I'm certain you can google one or two.

 

I'm fairly confident of my knowledge of addiction. But I'm not so sure about yours. You throw out the word "addiction" as if all addiction is the same. Do you think a person with a porn addiction experiences the same thing as a person with a Heroin addiction, and a person with a Marijuana addiction suffers the same as a person with a Valium addiction?

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nvh

There you go again, yet another topic where you insert irrelevant bullshit comparisons and make up a whole lot of bullshit and then claim that I said it.

 

Are you denying that marihuana addiction exists? Simple question.

 

No, when the hell did I say that. Christ sake, I posted the Science Times article, and pointed out the portion about down-regulation. But why is it irrelevant, when discussing addiction, to TALK ABOUT ADDICTION!

 

Jesus, what a All or Nothing universe you must dwell in. Do you really believe that there are no degrees of addiction, it is just one thing, with one set of symptoms, and only one outcome for everyone all the time?

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prettylight

I'm fairly confident of my knowledge of addiction. But I'm not so sure about yours. You throw out the word "addiction" as if all addiction is the same. Do you think a person with a porn addiction experiences the same thing as a person with a Heroin addiction, and a person with a Marijuana addiction suffers the same as a person with a Valium addiction?

 

...or forum addiction?

:(

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finchfeeder

So you're denying that chronic use leads to addiction?

 

No. Yet, a statement like, "chronic use leads to addiction," is only a half-truth, at best, and (depending upon the motive behind its use) purposefully misleading, at worst. For example, according to the research study that I cited earlier (the one referenced by the SAM website), there's a rather narrow window within adolescence, in which a considerably small number of individuals (< .5%, at its peak) develop Cannabis dependence (Figure 2). 

 

1395810f2.gif

 

Now, couple that with the study's findings that, even at its peak, there's only approximately a 6% probability, that individuals within that age-specific window, would become first-time users of Cannabis (Figure 1), and it leaves you with a peak of .3% of every individual within that age group, developing dependence (if my calculations are correct). That's 3/10th of one percent. 

 

    1395810f1.gif

 

 

Granted, I'd like to see some updated numbers. However, those who are against legalization (like the organization, SAM) should be more-honest with the ones they are using. We can't child-proof America.

 

Again, did I ever deny that chronic use of marijuana might lead to addiction?

 

If there exists "a whole list of addictions with a wide variety of symptoms, causes, concerns, health risks", why are you so reluctant to define more precisely what is meant when you say "marijuana addiction". If you just bandy about the word "addiction", many people picture some sick fuck whose bowels have let loose, lying on the floor dry-heaving and moaning. And that is not an accurate picture.

 

And yes, I've seen people coming off of Heroin who were that sick. I've seen people having the DTs and seizures from alcohol withdrawal. I saw a little old grandmother have a Grand Mal seizure coming off of Valium. Marijuana withdrawal, even after "chronic use" and addiction, IS NOT like that.

 

It's interesting that the DSM-IV-TR doesn't even contain a "Cannabis Withdrawal" diagnosis...and, even though the updated DSM-V and the ICD10 does include it, the authors acknowledge that the symptoms and the diagnosis are "ill-defined" due to lack of research.

 

I have known and associated with pot heads for over 50 years now.I`ve never known one that wanted to quit and couldn`t.I`ve never known one that got sick wondering where the next joint was coming from.I`ve never known one that went through any type of withdrawals even though most had to stop smoking for company physicals every year or so.I`ve never seen pot addiction,ever,anywhere.Addicts are addicts and will be addicted to something be it nose picking,Gum,or jerking off.

 

That pretty much sums it up.

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nvh

I have known and associated with pot heads for over 50 years now.I`ve never known one that wanted to quit and couldn`t.I`ve never known one that got sick wondering where the next joint was coming from.I`ve never known one that went through any type of withdrawals even though most had to stop smoking for company physicals every year or so.I`ve never seen pot addiction,ever,anywhere.Addicts are addicts and will be addicted to something be it nose picking,Gum,or jerking off.

 

You never knew anyone who got  grouchy when they ran out of pot?

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Hammer

You never knew anyone who got  grouchy when they ran out of pot?

No one runs out in real life.That`s the old Freak Bros joke.

 

post-20-0-99889100-1394576469_thumb.jpg

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nvh

You never admitted either.  So if you're saying you agree that chronic use of marihuana can lead to addiction, then the question has been answered.  End of story.

 

 

Who said it was?  Do you see anyone arguing that marihuana addiction leads to people shitting their pants?  I never said that.  Quit (yet again) trying to put words in my mouth.

 

I expect that folks will read what I post and understand it. Since I posted an article that stated that 'chronic' marijuana use can lead to down-regulation of receptors and the possibility of addiction, I didn't feel a strong need to make a public proclamation about addiction, since it was right there.

 

I didn't put words in your mouth, I noted what some people might think. But since you  didn't seem to want to discuss what marijuana addiction is like, I thought I'd lay out what it wasn't. You say you want simple answers, but there are none.

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nvh

No one runs out in real life.That`s the old Freak Bros joke.

 

attachicon.giffranklin.jpg

 

Yes, but sometimes neither love or money will do you any good.  As the fabled "Henry" noted in the NRPS song, "Every year along about this time it all goes dry".

 

 

And some people get grumpy.

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finchfeeder

As much as it's important, in the US, for the medical community, legalization proponents, etc, to continue their efforts to persuade Uncle Sam to reschedule Cannabis to open up more research opportunities as to the medical benefits of whole-plant applications, I have a difficult time resisting the desire to watch the US government get left behind, on the topic, in a similar manner that Colorado and Washington are doing with the Feds (in an orderly, well-thought-out way), regarding recreational sales. (Alaska and Oregon will most-likely join them this year.)

 

It comes back to the time-tested saying, "If you're not part of the solution, then, you're part of the problem."

 

Our President's policy statement's don't mean much, because, in essence, they're simply promises on paper, that are about as reliable as a 5-day weather forecast. Other governments have made much-more substantial steps to opening up Cannabis research and have been taking the lead, in that area, for quite some time. 

 

For example, Israel: What Israel can teach America about medical marijuana

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Hammer

Israel is a big part of part 2 of the CNN show.I couldn`t believe the things they have been doing for years.We`re way behind them in Cannabis study and usage,medicinal wise.

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Hammer

How are we behind them, medicinal wise?

They have been studying it and experimenting with it for years, backed by the govt. It's used and prescribed in hospitals and other medical facilities.

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finchfeeder

You keep referring to the medicinal use.  Are you against recreational use?  Medicinal uses is the common argument for legalization, but it's only a justification by the recreational user.  If both purposes were legal, what difference would it make what the schedule is?

 

I support both medical and recreational use. Both are interconnected. I apologize, if I've muddied the waters. It's relatively easy to do...for me.

 

The medical benefits are a common argument for recreational legalization. Yet, it's only one. I see the research supporting medical use as a natural support for legalizing recreational use, because the research identifying the benefits, undermines the standard arguments, for Prohibition. In other words, Cannabis isn't the boogie man that Sam has labeled it to be (that being, for a rather long time).

 

Now, I want to be clear: I'm referring to public safety, within the adult population (that's 21+). When it comes to the adolescent years, I think that most-all proponents and prohibitionists, alike, generally agree that those years must be guarded and publicly protected, because they're filled with a mix of developmental vulnerabilities. Anyone raising a teenager (let alone two teenage girls : ) understands it...and, the research supports the point. 

 

We agree on the adolescent stuff...and, also a states'-rights approach to governance.

 

I say let the Laboratories called Colorado and Washington work. 

 

What say ye?

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finchfeeder

I think that is probably the best argument for legalization I've ever heard, even though I am not a fan of legalization for recreational use.

 

Thank you. I certainly value that compliment, considering your perspective, on the topic.

 

I think that we both agree that there's a potential risk to public safety, regarding legalization (talking recreational, now). Human nature seems to produce no shortage of foolish people doing foolish things. It seems that some folks, given a stinking rubber band, will eventually hurt themselves with it (or someone else).

 

Yet, I think that we're seeing the public realize that there's a greater risk to keeping Cannabis sales illegal and underground: The Marijuana black market has certainly flourished, siphoned billions from the US economy each year (no exaggeration), and literally killed 10s-of-thousands of people in the process, when one includes Cartel-related killings to protect their Marijuana trade. Adding insult to injury, the cost realized on the consumer side (referring to generally responsible individuals) includes those relating to incarcerations, fines, permanent records, lost wages, lost jobs, and the cost of rehab, for some.

 

Then, there's the consumer's direct exposure to the Marijuana black market: Besides being exposed to dealers who also sell Heroin, Meth, and prescription drugs...and, the ones who protect their slice of the neighborhood, doing business for gangs, the consumer takes the risk of buying and ingesting an adulterated product, coming from who-knows-where, containing pesticides, mold, synthetic shit to enhance potency, or whatever. 

 

I believe that the cost-benefit ratio, regarding legalization, has tipped and the public has realized it.

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finchfeeder

The only problem is - the drug trade and cartels aren't going away any more than the mob went away with prohibition. 

 

The problem for them will be losing their Marijuana revenue and their monopoly on the Industry.

 

Sucks to be them. Good for US states. We're finally smartening up.

 

You're right. They're organisms that morph and adapt. However, they'll be doing that without the Marijuana revenue. It'll begin to happen in less than 10 years (I'll bet). The speed depends upon the momentum of states poised to vote "yes" on legalization from here, to 2016. Alaska will have the legalization question on the ballot this November. Advocates employed a well-organized petition effort, to get it there. It's very likely to pass, given the strong Libertarian population. Also, the Oregon Legislature and the Governor are both pushing toward legalization via passing the law and penning it into the books, that route. 

 

Other states are paying attention. I believe that Massachusetts is poised for legalization in 2016, as a ballot initiative. (California has been a royal cluster fuck, though, since 2010. You need a shit load of signatures needed for a petition's approval. According to CA law--see Step 4 "Required Number of Signatures"--an Initiative Statute requires 504,760 signatures and an Initiative Constitutional Amendment requires 807,615. So, what do they do? The idiots put out 4 or 5 petitions, instead of one.)   

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finchfeeder

Well at least your honest about it. Most people argue that drug cartels will throw up their hands and quit. You're a rarity, trust me. You acknowledge the problems and risks while still being able to articulate a justification for legalization (even though I don't entirely agree). It's rather refreshing for a change.

 

Thank you. I find your perspectives refreshing, as well. Realism always wins, doesn't it?

 

You're a very reasonable (and rather cordial) person with the pot topic, while cutting to the chase. That's honorable.

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finchfeeder

I can't relate.... :cool0044::rolleye0012:

 

I'm kinda surprised. I thought that you might have smoked some time back. Don't know why, for sure. Just did.

What's that you're whistling? Outside my high school, it was, "Pass it on man...pass it on."   :character0032:

An interesting time.

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