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CNN- Ocasio-Cortez: I did not feel safe from the officers at border facility

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Democratic members of Congress decried the treatment of detained immigrants in border detention facilities following a tour of one such building here that has come under scrutiny following reports of squalid conditions.

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grieker

You should feel safer in their presence than in your home district you ditz.

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Artvandolay

She's trying to out tweet the master. 

Fail.

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grieker

Cortez is a dramatic poor liar.

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Artvandolay

Rev. Samuel Rodriguez was "full of indignation" when he saw the reports and heard from politicians about the deplorable and inhumane conditions for illegal immigrants at an El Paso County, Texas migrant detention center. But what he saw at the same facility toured by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y. with a group of pastors was "drastically different."

“I read the reports, saw the news clips. I just wanted to see what was actually happening in order to better enable our efforts to find a fair and a just solution to our broken immigration system," Rodriguez, who has advised President Trump and both Presidents Barack Obama and George W. Bush on immigration reform, noted. “To my surprise, I saw something drastically different from the stories I’ve been hearing in our national discourse. Even as a veteran of immigration advocacy in the U.S., I was shocked at the misinformation of the crisis at the border."

 

“We found no soiled diapers, no deplorable conditions and no lack of basic necessities,” Rodriguez remarked, adding he specifically asked border agents if they staged the facility in response to the negative press. “They unequivocally denied it — we were witnessing the identical conditions the attorneys saw when they toured the facility days earlier."

In fact, some told him the sources from whom the negative coverage originated “never toured the areas of the facility that we toured” and speculated they might have had political motivations.

 

Cue in bashing of Rev Samual Rodriguez.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/immigration-border-facility-aoc-hispanic

 

 

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Pastor of Muppets
2 hours ago, grieker said:

You should feel safer in their presence than in your home district you ditz.

 

0d7de01a1a56e47eb38e413075882f284beaa5d816aa3b0194b46fd75683c841.jpg

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Dan Daniels

Every time I see a photo of AOC it reminds me I need to order grain for the horses. 

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prettylight

She's a cutie...so alive...a breath of fresh air in Congress, and it seems like she actually takes her job as a representative of the people, seriously.

 

^that was quite an awkward sentence--Grieker could probably edit it and make it better.

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grieker

Cortez and the rest of the pathetic, hypocritical progressives have their panties all bunched up because of criminals are being "sheltered" in deplorable conditions.  We just want to make them feel at home, like the deplorable conditions they left in their home country, which third-world country that may be.

Not a single one of those progressives give a shit, nor have they said ANYTHING about the deplorable conditions of the American homeless in LA, or the conditions in San Francisco where conditions are so shitty the city has to print maps of where to go to avoid piles of human shit!

The same progressives who said that Trump manufactured the "crisis at the border", it wasn't real are now blaming Trump for creating the "crisis at the border" that they denied existed.

 

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prettylight
4 minutes ago, grieker said:

Cortez and the rest of the pathetic, hypocritical progressives have their panties all bunched up because of criminals are being "sheltered" in deplorable conditions.  We just want to make them feel at home, like the deplorable conditions they left in their home country, which third-world country that may be.

Not a single one of those progressives give a shit, nor have they said ANYTHING about the deplorable conditions of the American homeless in LA, or the conditions in San Francisco where conditions are so shitty the city has to print maps of where to go to avoid piles of human shit!

The same progressives who said that Trump manufactured the "crisis at the border", it wasn't real are now blaming Trump for creating the "crisis at the border" that they denied existed.

 

Is that some kind of Chewbacca/apples and oranges defense hybrid, Grieker?

 

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grieker
1 minute ago, prettylight said:

Is that some kind of Chewbacca/apples and oranges defense hybrid, Grieker?

 

Nope.  Just providing facts for your enjoyment.

The media is scripting what matters to the progressives on a day-by-day basis.

Why is there concern for criminals and not for American citizens who are dying in the streets?

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prettylight
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, grieker said:

Nope.  Just providing facts for your enjoyment.

 

some combination of logical fallacies, anyway

It would be fun but time-consuming to figure out which ones exactly

https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/

Edited by prettylight

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grieker
2 minutes ago, prettylight said:

some combination of logical fallacies, anyway

It would be fun but time-consuming to figure out which ones exactly

https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/

No fallacy at all PL.

Every statement I made was factual, true not false.

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prettylight
Just now, grieker said:

No fallacy at all PL.

Every statement I made was factual, true not false.

oh, lol

alternative facts, maybe

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grieker
1 minute ago, prettylight said:

oh, lol

alternative facts, maybe

Nope, not from your alter.net PL.  Facts>

Cortez and the rest of the pathetic, hypocritical progressives have their panties all bunched up because of criminals are being "sheltered" in deplorable conditions.  We just want to make them feel at home, like the deplorable conditions they left in their home country, which third-world country that may be.

Not a single one of those progressives give a shit, nor have they said ANYTHING about the deplorable conditions of the American homeless in LA, or the conditions in San Francisco where conditions are so shitty the city has to print maps of where to go to avoid piles of human shit!

The same progressives who said that Trump manufactured the "crisis at the border", it wasn't real are now blaming Trump for creating the "crisis at the border" that they denied existed.

 

Feel free to refute PL.

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prettylight
5 minutes ago, grieker said:

Nope, not from your alter.net PL.  Facts>

Cortez and the rest of the pathetic, hypocritical progressives have their panties all bunched up because of criminals are being "sheltered" in deplorable conditions.  We just want to make them feel at home, like the deplorable conditions they left in their home country, which third-world country that may be.

Not a single one of those progressives give a shit, nor have they said ANYTHING about the deplorable conditions of the American homeless in LA, or the conditions in San Francisco where conditions are so shitty the city has to print maps of where to go to avoid piles of human shit!

The same progressives who said that Trump manufactured the "crisis at the border", it wasn't real are now blaming Trump for creating the "crisis at the border" that they denied existed.

 

Feel free to refute PL.

Grieker, I am really tempted.

Maybe will carve out an hour later this evening (and set the timer), and try to figure out and label logical fallacy after logical fallacy in your post.

I don't think it's just one--I think you are a master at combining them, and quickly, too.

You make it look easy and offhand, and my belief is that your skill at doing this shouldn't be underestimated--->:fok_emoticons_2_18599_6153_thum

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Pastor of Muppets
3 hours ago, grieker said:

There is no error in my reasoning because I am stating facts ergo no possible logical fallacy exists. It's quite simple actually (now THAT statement could be a logical fallacy) lol.

You're like Trump, making up "facts" to support your fantasy.

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grieker
3 minutes ago, Pastor of Muppets said:

You're like Trump, making up "facts" to support your fantasy.

Dispute/refute away bubba by telling me what I say is wrong.

Cortez and the rest of the pathetic, hypocritical progressives have their panties all bunched up because of criminals are being "sheltered" in deplorable conditions.  We just want to make them feel at home, like the deplorable conditions they left in their home country, which third-world country that may be.

Not a single one of those progressives give a shit, nor have they said ANYTHING about the deplorable conditions of the American homeless in LA, or the conditions in San Francisco where conditions are so shitty the city has to print maps of where to go to avoid piles of human shit!

The same progressives who said that Trump manufactured the "crisis at the border", it wasn't real are now blaming Trump for creating the "crisis at the border" that they denied existed.

 

P.S.  The House has just Sued Trump again.

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prettylight
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, grieker said:

Not a single one of those progressives give a shit, nor have they said ANYTHING about the deplorable conditions of the American homeless in LA, or the conditions in San Francisco where conditions are so shitty the city has to print maps of where to go to avoid piles of human shit!

 

am thinking this fallacy might just be Apples and Oranges, and/or maybe False Dilemma/False Dichotomy (below). PoM is good at recognizing fallacies, I think.

There is also a lot of farfetched mind-reading going on, like,  "Not a single one of those progressives give a shit"--but how could someone possibly know that, without being omniscient?

Maybe that would qualify as "Hasty Generalization."

More likely, a lot of people care about the American homeless in LA, and that wouldn't stop them from caring about this, too.

 

apples and oranges - drawing comparisons between events or sets of circumstances that seem to share a common denominator but are in fact distinct from one another by virtue of having occurred during different time periods, in different places, under different socio-economic conditions, to different groups of people, etc., can lead to the incorrect assumption that, just because something is true under one set of circumstances, it will necessarily hold true for all circumstances of a similar sort. The act of making such comparisons is sometimes referred to as "comparing apples and oranges."

https://qcpages.qc.cuny.edu/writing/history/considerations/fallacies.html

 

False Dilemma/False Dichotomy

This fallacy has a few other names: “black-and-white fallacy,” “either-or fallacy,” “false dichotomy,” and “bifurcation fallacy.” This line of reasoning fails by limiting the options to two when there are in fact more options to choose from. Sometimes the choices are between one thing, the other thing, or both things together (they don’t exclude each other). Sometimes there are a whole range of options, three, four, five, or a hundred and forty-five. However it may happen, the false dichotomy fallacy errs by oversimplifying the range of options.

Dilemma-based arguments are only fallacious when, in fact, there are more than the stated options. It’s not a fallacy however if there really are only two options. For example, “either Led Zeppelin is the greatest band of all time, or they are not.” That’s a true dilemma, since there really are only two options there: A or non-A. It would be fallacious however to say, "there are only two kinds of people in the world, people who love Led Zeppelin, and people who hate music." Some people are indifferent about that music. Some sort of like it, or sort of dislike it, but don’t have strong feelings either way.

Dilemma-based arguments are only fallacious when, in fact, there are more than the stated options.

The false dilemma fallacy is often a manipulative tool designed to polarize the audience, heroicizing one side and demonizing the other. It’s common in political discourse as a way of strong-arming the public into supporting controversial legislation or policies.

https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/

Edited by prettylight

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prettylight
Hasty generalization may be the most common logical fallacy because there’s no single agreed-upon measure for “sufficient” evidence.

Hasty Generalization

Hasty generalizations are general statements without sufficient evidence to support them. They are general claims too hastily made, hence they commit some sort of illicit assumption, stereotyping, unwarranted conclusion, overstatement, or exaggeration.

Normally we generalize without any problem. We make general statements all the time: “I like going to the park,” "Democrats disagree with Republicans,” "It’s faster to drive to work than to walk," or "Everyone mourned the loss of Harambe, the Gorilla.”

Indeed, the above phrase “all the time” is a generalization — we aren’t all the time making these statements. We take breaks to do other things like eat, sleep, and inhale. These general statements aren’t addressing every case every time. They are speaking generally, and, generally speaking, they are true. Sometimes you don’t enjoy going to the park. Sometimes Democrats and Republicans agree. Sometimes driving to work can be slower than walking if the roads are all shut down for a Harambe procession.

https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/

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prettylight
2 minutes ago, Pastor of Muppets said:

Alright PL, I give you an A+.

:sign0081:

Thanks, PoM :) :) !!

(If you notice any additional ones, I'll be all ears.)

 

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grieker

Fortunately Cortez is not a drama queen who has unfettered "go for it" passes from the media who will not call her out.  "Drink from the toilet" is a deplorable statement that either she made up (no witnesses) or is what some liar said to her.  

With the "Concentration Camps" having been hot topics for months, it just doesn't smell right, doesn't make sense.

Her one statement about not feeling safe FROM the officers is telling enough about just how detached she is.

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Pastor of Muppets
47 minutes ago, grieker said:

Fortunately Cortez is not a drama queen who has unfettered "go for it" passes from the media who will not call her out.  "Drink from the toilet" is a deplorable statement that either she made up (no witnesses) or is what some liar said to her.  

With the "Concentration Camps" having been hot topics for months, it just doesn't smell right, doesn't make sense.

Her one statement about not feeling safe FROM the officers is telling enough about just how detached she is.

You better batten down the hatches of your bubble, leaks are prevalent.

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grieker
9 hours ago, prettylight said:

 

Maybe that had something to do with this nest of creeps?

 

Customs and Border Protection investigating secret Facebook page where agents allegedly mocked migrant deaths

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/customs-and-border-protection-investigating-secret-facebook-page-where-agents-allegedly-mock-migrant-deaths/

Nope.

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grieker

"It's sad to see, she's getting bolder with her lies on this and this is what is actually happening, and this is what the American people need to understand," Crenshaw responded.

"People like AOC are operating off of a false premise, and it's deliberately designed to misinform the American people for her own political ends, right? Remember first there was no crisis at all, OK? Then it was a manufactured crisis then it was a crisis completely created by Trump, then there were concentration camps, then people are Nazis," he explained.

"Now she's saying that border patrol harassed her and forced migrants to drink out of toilets?" he asked.

"This is insanity, this is not true, there's just nobody else corroborating these kinds of reports," Crenshaw said. "And yet she's using it to try to make her case that we shouldn't have any enforcement and that we should have open borders. This is really dishonest behavior from a member of Congress, and I honestly can't believe it."

MacCallum pointed out that a few presidential candidates were specifically advocating for all detention centers to be shut down.

"This is the crux of it..."

She asked Crenshaw to respond to the release of photos of "very overcrowded, very untenable situations" at migrant detention camps.

"Of course and these Democrats need to have a reasonable, logical conversation, engage in some problem-solving and then offer an actual solution, because what they're really doing is trying to stand on their moral high horse and sling arrows at everybody else while not offering a solution," Crenshaw responded.

"Let's not forget, they fought us tooth and nail against that $4.5 billion of humanitarian aid that the president needed, that DHS needed, that HHS needed, in order to better conditions at these facilities, they fought us for months on this," he explained.

"They said there was no crisis, we asked for a vote in the House seventeen times, they refused to do it," he continued.

"And it's funny, Castro puts this video out, AOC talks about these things, I don't see them offering up any of the space in their own homes, right, they're not offering a better solution, they're not saying, 'hey why don't we put them all up in a hotel,' they're not saying that," Crenshaw said.

"What they really want is no enforcement, and this is the crux of it," he concluded. "They don't talk about what the actual problem is, which is, tens of thousands of people coming across and overwhelming our system, OK?"

Crenshaw went on to accuse Democrats of not providing any solutions for detaining migrants, which he says is tantamount to advocating for open borders.

 

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