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What does patriotism look like?You might think that a more appropriate question to pose on the 4th of July or Veterans Day or Memorial Day. It is easy to feel love of country and devotion to America when our streets are lined with flags and we see servicemen, servicewomen and veterans in uniform.Pat...

 

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Farmer Vincent

Well written for the most part, however it suggests that we should, as a show of patriotism, settle for less. This might be the new reality, but I'm not willing to just roll over and accept this for my children and grandchildren. It reminds me of a book called Boomsday by Christopher Buckley. In it, a political rascal introduces the idea of 'voluntary transitioning' (suicide) by seniors so that Social Security and Medicare can be saved.

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simpleton

Well written for the most part, however it suggests that we should, as a show of patriotism, settle for less. This might be the new reality, but I'm not willing to just roll over and accept this for my children and grandchildren. It reminds me of a book called Boomsday by Christopher Buckley. In it, a political rascal introduces the idea of 'voluntary transitioning' (suicide) by seniors so that Social Security and Medicare can be saved.

That's the beauty of this country, you don't have to. But you have to do something about it. Insisting a bunch of other people do something about it won't work.

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Farmer Vincent

That's the beauty of this country, you don't have to. But you have to do something about it. Insisting a bunch of other people do something about it won't work.

 

I do things about it. I've joined with the OWS folk and tend to get a little preachy with co-workers and acquaintances. I promote unions, environmental responsibility, buy local, and boycott Walmart. I know it's not enough. It's never enough. But I keep a reasonable balance between doing what I can to make a difference and just dealing with all my other responsibilities. When I was standing on the street holding a sign some guy in a big pickup truck rolled by and yelled "Get a Job". I'm the opposite of that guy.

 

Everybody's situation is different. It would be helpful if more people would become a little more informed and a little less propagandized. One informed person armed with the truth can influence another and they, another, etc. This has to become part of our national consciousness.

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Citydweller

Well written for the most part, however it suggests that we should, as a show of patriotism, settle for less.

 

Yes, but she opens with a lengthy suggestion that corporate America, big business and Wall Street should lead that parade:

 

Economic patriotism is corporations making the decision to keep their factories and headquarters in the United States and paying U.S. workers, even if that means smaller profits.

 

It is corporate managers voluntarily reducing their own bonuses and compensation packages for the good of their employees and for the good of the U.S. economy.

 

Those tens and hundreds of millions of dollars saved could be used to reduce the number of layoffs or to hold down the prices of goods and services.

 

Economic patriotism is the mortgage industry voluntarily working with unemployed homeowners or those facing foreclosure to refinance mortgages, as interest rates and home values have tumbled following the bursting of the housing bubble.

 

In this case, it might be enlightened self-interest as failure to do the humane thing might result in more and more homeowners simply walking away from properties and mortgages holders finding themselves awash in abandoned houses they cannot sell.

 

I thought that was somewhat...er.... sensible.

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Farmer Vincent

Yes, but she opens with a lengthy suggestion that corporate America, big business and Wall Street should lead that parade:

 

 

 

I thought that was somewhat...er.... sensible.

 

I certainly agree with that part of it. There should be more responsibility to this country and it's people and to it's employees rather than to shareholders above all else.

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simpleton

I do things about it. I've joined with the OWS folk and tend to get a little preachy with co-workers and acquaintances. I promote unions, environmental responsibility, buy local, and boycott Walmart. I know it's not enough. It's never enough. But I keep a reasonable balance between doing what I can to make a difference and just dealing with all my other responsibilities. When I was standing on the street holding a sign some guy in a big pickup truck rolled by and yelled "Get a Job". I'm the opposite of that guy.

 

Everybody's situation is different. It would be helpful if more people would become a little more informed and a little less propagandized. One informed person armed with the truth can influence another and they, another, etc. This has to become part of our national consciousness.

That's always an interesting idea. No one ever admits to being propagandized. Everyone wants to believe they are informed. I see it all the time in disagreements on here. If I don't get my information the same places others do, I am told I'm being propagandized. I'm told articles in Rolling Stone are not propaganda, simply because the person reading the article wants to believe what it says. It doesn't make for constructive conversation.

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Farmer Vincent

That's always an interesting idea. No one ever admits to being propagandized. Everyone wants to believe they are informed. I see it all the time in disagreements on here. If I don't get my information the same places others do, I am told I'm being propagandized. I'm told articles in Rolling Stone are not propaganda, simply because the person reading the article wants to believe what it says. It doesn't make for constructive conversation.

 

Yes, obviously everybody is going to have different opinions. It's still better to at least attempt to be informed. Probably the best way to do that is to draw from sources that aren't notorious for having a bias. As for the Rolling Stone articles, they very much tend to be written about established facts from behind the scenes that aren't usually publicly known. They tend to be very enlightening.

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simpleton

Yes, obviously everybody is going to have different opinions. It's still better to at least attempt to be informed. Probably the best way to do that is to draw from sources that aren't notorious for having a bias. As for the Rolling Stone articles, they very much tend to be written about established facts from behind the scenes that aren't usually publicly known. They tend to be very enlightening.

 

Rolling Stone also tends to be rather slanted. It tells you what you already believe.

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Farmer Vincent

Rolling Stone also tends to be rather slanted. It tells you what you already believe.

 

Out of curiosity, do you consider yourself well informed? What sources do you rely on?

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Citydweller

Rolling Stone also tends to be rather slanted. It tells you what you already believe.

 

Wtf are you talking about?

 

You don't have to believe that Wall Street, The Fed, the SEC and Treasury are peopled by the same players, who went to school together and rotate back and forth between jobs in all of those organizations. It's a fact.

 

You might need to believe that someone would leave a multi-zillion-dollar job on Wall Street to become a FED Governor or top SEC official, and then act favorably towards their friends to the detriment of the public, but to believe otherwise is delusional.

 

The real problem is that too many people don't want to believe many plain facts, because accepting the truth would also mean accepting that the world has indeed gone topsy-turvy, and it should no longer be tolerated. For too many people, that's just too much to try and sleep with every night, and the delusion that things at the top are really sound, and that "some troublemakers" are trying to upset an imaginary balance that doesn't really exist, is too comforting to let go of.

 

Rolling Stone is just trying to help you let go of your delusions.

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FDR

Wtf are you talking about?

 

You don't have to believe that Wall Street, The Fed, the SEC and Treasury are peopled by the same players, who went to school together and rotate back and forth between jobs in all of those organizations. It's a fact.

 

You might need to believe that someone would leave a multi-zillion-dollar job on Wall Street to become a FED Governor or top SEC official, and then act favorably towards their friends to the detriment of the public, but to believe otherwise is delusional.

 

The real problem is that too many people don't want to believe many plain facts, because accepting the truth would also mean accepting that the world has indeed gone topsy-turvy, and it should no longer be tolerated. For too many people, that's just too much to try and sleep with every night, and the delusion that things at the top are really sound, and that "some troublemakers" are trying to upset an imaginary balance that doesn't really exist, is too comforting to let go of.

 

Rolling Stone is just trying to help you let go of your delusions.

 

The best part about it all is most of those who are protesting(if they bother to vote at all?) voted for Change. I love that the idiots are clueless to the fact he is as much of the problem as anyone. He's heavily vested in the success of these companies.

 

What people need to grasp is that there is nothing and I'll repeat that....nothing they can do about it. If they worried about themselves half as much as they worry about shit that is out of their control we'd all be at a higher level.

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o311mc

I do things about it. I've joined with the OWS folk and tend to get a little preachy with co-workers and acquaintances. I promote unions, environmental responsibility, buy local, and boycott Walmart. I know it's not enough. It's never enough. But I keep a reasonable balance between doing what I can to make a difference and just dealing with all my other responsibilities. When I was standing on the street holding a sign some guy in a big pickup truck rolled by and yelled "Get a Job". I'm the opposite of that guy.

 

Everybody's situation is different. It would be helpful if more people would become a little more informed and a little less propagandized. One informed person armed with the truth can influence another and they, another, etc. This has to become part of our national consciousness.

 

 

Ok so you joined OWS, so when the rest of the world is "aware" whats next? I think the OWS movement is propagandization at it's finest so far.

 

promote unions? and that helps what? None of the local unions have really helped anyone as far as I have seen. Corporations and Unions are the same animal, just trying to make a buck off the guy that actually does the work. I do realize that unions can be good and don't doubt that somewhere out there are good ones.

 

environmental responsibilty, OK I agree thats the right thing to do.

 

Buy local,again I agree

 

boycott walmart,,,,,,,,,,,,why?

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simpleton

Out of curiosity, do you consider yourself well informed? What sources do you rely on?

 

If I had to pick one source I use as reliable and unbiased it would be The Christian Science Monitor. They frequenlty will write two articles about national political issues from both a Republican and Democratic view.

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simpleton

Wtf are you talking about?

 

You don't have to believe that Wall Street, The Fed, the SEC and Treasury are peopled by the same players, who went to school together and rotate back and forth between jobs in all of those organizations. It's a fact.

 

You might need to believe that someone would leave a multi-zillion-dollar job on Wall Street to become a FED Governor or top SEC official, and then act favorably towards their friends to the detriment of the public, but to believe otherwise is delusional.

 

The real problem is that too many people don't want to believe many plain facts, because accepting the truth would also mean accepting that the world has indeed gone topsy-turvy, and it should no longer be tolerated. For too many people, that's just too much to try and sleep with every night, and the delusion that things at the top are really sound, and that "some troublemakers" are trying to upset an imaginary balance that doesn't really exist, is too comforting to let go of.

 

Rolling Stone is just trying to help you let go of your delusions.

You need to follow along here better. I am not disputing the facts. I am drawing different conclusions than you. I have a different view than you do about how to proceed from here. That always irks the shit out of you.

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mrkglsr65

If I had to pick one source I use as reliable and unbiased it would be The Christian Science Monitor. They frequenlty will write two articles about national political issues from both a Republican and Democratic view.

 

Two mouths, same mind.

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Farmer Vincent

 

boycott walmart,,,,,,,,,,,,why?

 

Walmart was a big influence to push manufacturers to move operations overseas so that they could fall under the pricing guidelines of the world's largest retailer. They also forced many local businesses to close and they're not very good with their employees. The only Walmart that is unionized is in China.

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FDR

Walmart was a big influence to push manufacturers to move operations overseas so that they could fall under the pricing guidelines of the world's largest retailer. They also forced many local businesses to close and they're not very good with their employees. The only Walmart that is unionized is in China.

 

Really? People thinking they should get paid $20.00 an hour to manufacture .25 cent items in a job worth $10 an hour had nothing to do with that? You know if they worked harder and produced enough to justify the $20 an hour wage we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

I agree that Wal Mart is the Antichrist but they didn't push anyone overseas. Employees slacking and producing crap started that train rolling a long time ago.

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Farmer Vincent

Really? People thinking they should get paid $20.00 an hour to manufacture .25 cent items in a job worth $10 an hour had nothing to do with that? You know if they worked harder and produced enough to justify the $20 an hour wage we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

I agree that Wal Mart is the Antichrist but they didn't push anyone overseas. Employees slacking and producing crap started that train rolling a long time ago.

 

Boy, you sure seem anti-American. I think you would do well as a sweatshop boss in China.

 

I'll use lawnmowers as an example. Years ago Walmart informed lawnmower manufacturers what their price per unit had to be in order to have product in the world's largest retail store. The manufacturers knew they couldn't produce them here for that price, but Walmart gave them all the information they needed for contracts with factories in China. Snapper didn't go for it, kept their operations here, and didn't sell through Walmart. They took a bit of a hit, but that's what you call ethics and patriotism.

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HarlDelos

If I had to pick one source I use as reliable and unbiased it would be The Christian Science Monitor. They frequenlty will write two articles about national political issues from both a Republican and Democratic view.

 

In the 1960s, more professional journalists read the CSM than any other daily newspaper.

 

Of course, a lot of that had to do with the fact that there other other daily newspaper with national readership was the Wall Street Journal.

 

But the CSM didn't need to have two editorials on controversial issues. As a rule, both of them are fair representations of the truth. Most newspapers have one editorial and it will be based on untruths.

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Citydweller

I agree that Wal Mart is the Antichrist but they didn't push anyone overseas.

 

Ah, grasshopper, but what might appear to be so is just so totally not.

 

You've never sold to Wal Mart, and while I haven't either, I have family members who do. Wal Mart expressly tells the makers of many major products they carry that they need to make their products in China... as well as meeting fixed price structures. The main thing is the making in China, however, because some savvy manufacturers could hit Wal Mart's price demands while still making their shit here, but see, that doesn't do anything to improve Wal Mart's performance in bed with China. So they will tell you, to your face (and off camera and if you tell anyone we said this you will never sell anywhere, ever again) that you need to manufacture in China. Or Else.

 

So yes, they did push hundreds of thousands, if not millions of jobs to China, and they continue to do it, with Wall Street riding shotgun.

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mrkglsr65

Wal-Mart = Globalism

 

Wal-Mart made it possible for Americans to buy a shirt for $9.95 that cost them $1 to make and ship over here from Pakistan or China or some other rice-paddy shithole.

 

Meanwhile, smaller American manufacturers were trying to sell $20 shirts for $20, but the unions made it cost $22.50 to produce and that was the end of a lot of smaller companies.

 

The political whores in the New World Order created this inverse universe by extolling the virtues of the "free-market" when, in actuality, they were helping their big corporate patrons send labor overseas. So we buy this cheap shit that won't last very long and the great global Ponzi scheme continues.

 

Break the cycle - don't fall for globalists.

Edited by Mark Glaeser

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o311mc

Ah, grasshopper, but what might appear to be so is just so totally not.

 

You've never sold to Wal Mart, and while I haven't either, I have family members who do. Wal Mart expressly tells the makers of many major products they carry that they need to make their products in China... as well as meeting fixed price structures. The main thing is the making in China, however, because some savvy manufacturers could hit Wal Mart's price demands while still making their shit here, but see, that doesn't do anything to improve Wal Mart's performance in bed with China. So they will tell you, to your face (and off camera and if you tell anyone we said this you will never sell anywhere, ever again) that you need to manufacture in China. Or Else.

 

So yes, they did push hundreds of thousands, if not millions of jobs to China, and they continue to do it, with Wall Street riding shotgun.

 

Bro in law sells tons of shit to walmart, he says they lay out a price, and thats it. No requirement for origin of product. All the stuff he sells wally world is manufactured in york county. I think walmart is brutal in thier price demands, but I think thier "behind the scenes" conversations with suppliers is greatly exaggerated. I don't often shop at Walmart as the stores are generally dirty and cluckerfuckish in nature, but the price of certain things will draw me in from time to time.

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prettylight

Yes, but she opens with a lengthy suggestion that corporate America, big business and Wall Street should lead that parade:

 

 

 

I thought that was somewhat...er.... sensible.

 

I agree. :)!

 

--

 

Interesting about WalMart. :(

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o311mc

Interesting about WalMart. :(

 

I did not know that either,,,,,,,,,,,,,,why hasn't walmart been occupied ?

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Farmer Vincent

I did not know that either,,,,,,,,,,,,,,why hasn't walmart been occupied ?

 

The fight to resist Walmart was given up long ago. It used to be about it's displacing local merchants and building ugly big block stores. Then for a time the complaints about it's marketing tactics and treatment of female employees got a little press and a documentary but by then people were used to bargains and didn't want that to go away. It's like smoking ... you know it's bad for you but quitting is hard. OWS has bigger fish to fry right now, but maybe down the road there will be a revival of questions about why and how it operates.

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Citydweller

why hasn't walmart been occupied ?

 

It is occupied. Just by a different group.

 

3249.jpg

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o311mc

It is occupied. Just by a different group.

 

3249.jpg

 

 

FDR is gonna be mad that you put his picture up on the interwebz,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:jptdknpa:

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HarlDelos

The fight to resist Walmart was given up long ago.

 

That's because nobody goes there. It's too crowded. (Hi, Yogi!)

 

Life's too short to shop WalMart. It's fun to find bargains at the distressed goods stores (Amelia, Glenwood Discount, Sharp Shopper), and I get most staples at ALDI. Nobody else can match Costco for meat quality. If I can't get the produce I need at a farm stand, it's usually Giant.

 

The only reasons I know to go to WalMart are the 10-pound bags of chicken wings, and the packer brisket, so I haven't been there more than 10 times in the last five years. WalMart pulled out of Germany because they couldn't match ALDI, and if Albrecht were to build 4 times as many stores as they currently have, they wouldn't have much trouble finding customers to fill them.

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Citydweller
FDR is gonna be mad that you put his picture up on the interwebz,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:jptdknpa:

 

That's his brother Daryl. On a good day.

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